A worldly, erudite, and misanthropic British co-worker of mine once said he thought that French society was the most adult society he’d ever encountered. I have to say I agree with him. After all, my 11- and 13-year-old stepkids compare Molière plays, talk about the French presidential candidates, and discuss fine points of French grammar at the dinner table. And it’s not like we initiate these conversations. They’re like mini grown-ups who hide candy wrappers between the couch cushions and sometimes pout.
These kids didn’t want to go to Disneyland last summer when we were in LA. I did. I was bummed.
Americans, on the other hand, seem to have the most childlike society. One evening a while back, when I was visiting my family in California, a bunch of us (from age 7 to 40+) found ourselves disco dancing to the Bee Gees with stuffed animals. It was a game my nephew wanted to play, and we just went with it, with all-American glee. (Now, I don’t think most American men would be seen dancing around with a purple princess pony. But, like me, my brother’s in touch with his inner everybody, as you can see…)
The disco incident took place shortly before I moved to France, so I took some pictures for Vincent and told him that American adults act more like kids than French kids do. I wanted to prepare him.
Now, the French generally think Americans are infantile. I can’t really blame them. But I think part of the problem is that they have no respect for fun. Vincent teases me when I say things like “that sounds fun” or “we had fun.” I think the nebulousness of the term bugs him as well as the absence of dignity and gravity in the concept. Like I said, they’re a serious bunch.
Vincent, having a snotty Frog moment one day, felt the need to point out that exchanging viewpoints and questioning idées reçues is the kind of leisure activity the French prefer to engage in, whereas Americans tend to do things like play beach volleyball. (Nothing edifying in that. Nothing accomplished. No profundity. No great ideas to further civilization and improve the human condition being tossed around. You get the picture.)
There are these talk shows all over French TV where intense, brainy people with lots of opinions and a ton of facts to back them up (because every French person has memorized all of history) sit around tables and talk about everything from sausage-making to sodomy. No matter what the topic, they get worked up, all talk at the same time, and shout over each other to be heard. I speak French, but it’s a real challenge to follow four screaming Frogs at once. Sometimes I just have to walk away. Vincent watches these shows to unwind, but they give me anxiety attacks. He had to explain to me that they were attacking each other’s ideas only, not each other. He pointed out that Americans get immediately defensive, offended, and angry when someone attacks their ideas. They take it personally. I never thought about it, but he’s right. That’s probably why the shows make me uncomfortable. That and the fact that Americans don’t generally raise their voices unless they’re mad.
So the French love their cerebral duels. When I suggested that this is just what the French do for “fun,” Vincent rejected the idea immediately. I assume he reacted that way because he felt that “fun” implied frivolity and was inappropriate in that case. So I explained that we use “fun” to describe anything that you take pleasure in, whether it’s serious or frivolous.
So today’s lesson in understanding the French is that what the French do for fun is open cans of worms, set the little buggers loose, feed ‘em, play with ‘em, have little worm circuses… Americans, on the other hand, seem to go to great lengths to keep a tight lid on worms of every variety. So if you find yourself in conversation with French people who you think are trying to argue with you or belittle you, they’re not being assholes; they just want to play French volleyball. You should be flattered. So play along. Get into it. And spike the ball. They respect that.
Vincent told me yesterday that I couldn’t be French as long as I remained a fun-loving, California bimbo. He said I have to have a tortured soul. But he knows I keep my tortured soul in a can with my other worms. I’m American, after all. But living here is helping me get over my scoleciphobia. That’s a start.
Stay tuned for more lessons on understanding the French!
That’s all fine and dandy, and mostly true, but if you were French, you would also TAKE A STAND. You wouldn’t just observe, you would OPINE.
I take issue with one observation though. It’s not that something has to have “dignity or gravity”. It has to have some kind of *depth*. We frogs aren’t content with the mere surface or appearance of things. We’re interested in the whys and the wherefores, whether the subject is Molière or beach-volley.
And isn’t that what children do: ask why things are the way they are and not just accept everything at face value, the way alienated adults do? So maybe the frogs are the children and the murkins are the adults…
Fun, isn’t it?
Good points. Of course, you’re a Frog, so you’re trained to tear things to pieces for fun. I’m out of my league with you guys. It’s like me trying to play basketball with [fill in famous basketball player name cuz I'm blanking].
Maybe you’re right about adults and children. Maybe American adult minds are so closed and incurious that the only way they can attain anything close to that childlike state of mind is by playing hard. But their endless pursuit of fun and entertainment might suggest that that approach doesn’t work…
See what I mean? He wanted me to play with these worms and not just look at them!
My opinion is that a happy medium between the two cultural extremes would be a good thing. [Don't even start...] Americans should think and question more and the French should drop their guard and just get stooopid sometimes. Since you’re both I guess that makes you perfect. ;-)
It’s hard to accuse you of copping out after such a nice compliment ;-)
In practice, you’re right, but in principle, you’re not. Because things have relative worth in the realm of principles too. (I know, that’s quite a concept, since they have no pecuniary worth ;) So while the different attitudes might have pros and cons in practice, they are not equivalent philosophically speaking !
And that’s something I’ve come to believe is another core difference between the cultures. In the US, practicality and pragmatism most always win out over principles (the ends justify the means). In France, it’s the reverse (the ends never justify the means), to the point where common-sense, slap-on-the-forehead solutions to real problems will sometimes be deliberately ignored, because they fly in the face of cherished principles. Better to live with those problems than to betray such principles.
You make things so difficult. I don’t want to go delving into things! I want to be able to take a superficial glance at any given phenomenon, pass a value judgment, and place it in a comfy category, like “good” or “evil.”
Oh wait. That’s not me. That’s the rest of America…
I can’t argue with you because you’re right. I apologize for agreeing with you. (I’m never gonna get a French passport if I keep agreeing with people…) But I didn’t set out to write about how the collective mind of either culture works. I was making observations about what the two cultures do for fun. The other discussion is not the kind of thing a blog entry will hold comfortably and there’s a limit to what blog readers will bear. My posts are long as it is. But clearly people who think heated discussion is the ultimate extreme sport and those who prefer to whack balls around are coming from different places… That was IMPLICIT. I thought you guys wrote the book on implicit.
But maybe I should spell it out for my readers, some of whom are American and, therefore, need things to be more explicit. You see, for the French it’s not about the arguing itself, it’s about the way their minds work. They want to examine everything under a microscope to better understand their universe. They’re infinitely curious. They believe ideas have more value than anything and that making the world a better place starts with ideas.
Being American, it’s not always easy for me to get enough distance to examine the culture. So what’s behind the ball-whacking and monster trucks and super big gulps? Not a lot. Today’s Americans are in love with stuff and action. Ideas just don’t do it for them. They’re into the concrete, material world and reaching goals. They want bigger, harder, faster, louder, more. They categorize things, set them aside, and move on. Reflection and discussion are a hindrance and a waste of time. I think they fill their lives with stuff and action to avoid thinking.
There was also implicit criticism of both the ball-whackers and the screamers in the original entry in case you missed it, although it was mild, I admit.
There. Happy now?
You, dear readers, should be able to tell where my sympathies lie. I don’t have to come out and say it, do I? But don’t think I’m going to stop disco dancing with gigantic plush clownfish any time soon. I’m the happy medium incarnate.
Maybe I’ll start a series on French/American cultural differences. What should I call it? Oh, hell with it. There are enough books on the subject. I’m just gonna stick to what I know.
Is it football season yet?
Pfff… It happens to me every time. An interesting subject comes up for discussion, I discuss it, forgetting I’m not dealing with fellow frogs, and I’m told to lighten up, keep it down, get off my high-horse or something like that.
When will I learn?
;)
I said no such thing, you pugnacious Frog.
[...] well. The French have a different idea of fun and funny. As I’ve said before, they tend to be a serious bunch. But I need a little shot of good old dopey humor every now and [...]
These are old posts, so don’t know if anyone’s still reading, but I am American, and I love to discuss, dissect, etc. I do have French people within my family sphere, and have a little French blood, and speak it some, though. The “Why?” about everything is way more important to me that the “What?”, and always has been. A mere recitation of facts is boring to me. I like stories, explanations, and going off on tangents. Word games, etc. are a blast. Sorry to rain on some people’s parade, but there are Americans who like thinking way more than accumulating. We’re not all alike.